Do you think maintenance costs are the real key to this problem?

Maintenance costs are a big factor in building golf courses today. With large undulating greens, enormous bunkers and long golf courses, your maintenance costs go sky high . And I’ll tell you what, they are going to go up much more in the future. People building golf courses better start thinking about that. I have a man in my company who goes to country clubs and advises them on how to run the club and make money. That’s important.

What do you think of PGA West?

I don’t like it—and I am an admirer of Peter Dye. The best job Pete Dye ever did is right here [Harbour Town]. Why he didn’t continue his golf courses like this I don’t know, because this is the best. But he’s gotten away from this. I’m very disappointed in the way he’s gone. He’s done some absolutely tremendous work right down the road at Long Cove—a beautiful golf course. But he’s getting away from that now. He’s going to big undulating, severe greens, and I don’t know why he’s doing that, because he’s such a talented man. I’m disappointed.

It seems like some of the people with money in the country want to build monuments to themselves and are asking architects to build the toughest courses in the country,

They’re creating monsters.

Do you think that down the road, 10 or 15 years from now, we’ll have some white elephants that will have to be remodeled?

I do. I think they’ll have to be re-done. When members see how long it’s taking them to play, and they have to make five-foot putts all day, they’re not going to enjoy it. That is why I want to start a new trend—building courses that people will enjoy. If people enjoy the course, and they can get around in a decent amount of time, the club will generate more revenue; because people will spend more time and money in the clubhouse instead of on the golf course. At a lot of golf courses, people just want to get the heck out of there.

What do you think of Jack Nicklaus’ golf courses?

Jack is very talented. There are many talented architects, but I really think they’re building golf courses that are too undulating and too tough. That’s just my opinion.